The X Games were pouring into Minneapolis and the fans were pouring into the legendary First Ave Mainroom. As I stepped into the garage behind the stage I felt like an athlete stretching, except the muscle I was stretching was my mind, knowing that it was about to get a workout by the lovely and talented lyrical student and battle rap assassin, Sa Roc.

Isaac: My name is Isaac Ford, I'm with Upcoming Hip Hop, and just off the bat if you can just tell our readers, who you are, and what you represent?

Sa Roc: Sure. I'm Sa Roc. I'm originally from Washington D.C., based in Atlanta. I would say that I do True School or Classic hip hop. I’m an emcee who was raised with a clear understanding of the original elements of the culture, and Sol Messiah(my DJ/Producer) and create music with substantive content, social relevance, and musical versatility.

We can just jump into your message, because I think coming from a song like, Forever, it's got such a powerful message to it about self-love, and appreciating yourself, but also this empowerment of women. So, can you kind of explain where that message started? Where did you really begin to feel that way, and how did that come about with that feeling?

I feel like it's an ongoing thing. We are constantly having to affirm that we are worthy, affirm that we are valuable in a world that gives us so many mixed messages about our work. Whether it's about how we look, or our voices if we're worthy of sharing our voice, or if we're too loud, or too forceful, or whatever. There's all these little constructs, little boxes that society likes to put us in, [and] if we don't fit all those perfect boxes, we're often times dismissed, and isolated. So, I think I wrote it, just kind of at a point in my life, where I felt that as a woman, and j[as men], it's important for us to be able to find the beauty and light within ourselves. That makes us special, whatever that might be. We idolize so many...especially in this age of social media. We idolize so many people, and we project our idea of what's dope [on other people] while so often we aren't able to find it within ourselves especially if we've had a history of pain, trauma, or been beat down [or] had experiences that made us feel like we need to hide, or cover up our battle scars, things like that. So, I've been through a lot in my life. I still have scars, like physical scars, and emotional scars, from things that I have been through. So, I wanted to show people that it's okay. Like, I'm still beautiful, I'm still worthy, I'm still going to show myself. I'm not going to shrink in the corner, because I'm going to be beautiful and so are you.

One part that stuck out for me hearing this was the idea of projecting our idea of whats dope that we begin to forget about the dopeness inside of us. I didn't know my direction in this interview and this article until this moment, but I figured it was time to be introspective and learn. Lately, my life has become a bit different, meeting people I have never would have expected and experiencing things I could only dream, but with that came a sense of ego that had me forgetting the reason I really do this... to learn and grow within a culture that has given me so much.

First off thank you and we will get back to the social media idolization that you mentions but first when you look back at some of your old work like True Mastery, you were very self-aware of the fact that you aren't an industry marketable act; however, I felt like with 'Forever' you were able to maintain your style, your lyricism, your message but bring a more marketable sound to. How do you go about creating a more commercial sound while staying true to your path?

Right, exactly. I think as I've grown as an artist, I've moved from spaces where, you know, the culture of independent hip hop is kind of a battle culture. And then especially as a woman in hip hop, you feel like you have to prove how dope you are, and prove how lyrical you are, and all of those things. I grew up idolizing some of the best lyricists in hip hop that may or may not have had top ten hits, but their wordplay, and lyricism, their use of language is laudable. So, I kind of modeled myself after that. [I] modeled a lot of my flow after that kind of thing, because I consider myself a lover of language. So when you see three verses with no hook or me just spitting, that's where that comes from, but then I realize that a lot of women, a lot of children, a lot of dudes who are into that, you know, bars.... they also want songs that they can listen to at home and vibe out to when they're in the shower and so do. So, I go into the space of Lauryn Hill. I go into the space of some of the people who I grew up on like Outkast and even Earth, Wind & Fire, and stuff like that, and I bring melody into the music. So, it's just being conscious of that. I still have that in me, that competitive [nature], though.

This growth is something that I feel will bring Sa Roc to the masses and in my opinion is something the masses need. I have been a fan of many waves of hip hop from Future to Black Thought, and have often compared it to reading in that some days I want to read a novel or a scholastic paper, and sometimes I want to read the Sunday Funnies. The beauty of an artist that can manipulate and master the language is that their message can be that much more power when its heard. This is especially true for Sa Roc who not only can go toe to toe with some of the best in the game but has spent much of her career building up the message of self-love and empowerment for women.

So, going back a little bit too, you had talked about, learning to love yourself and having scars, having the actual physical scars as well. You bring it up in 'Forever' saying “I'm scared up and I'm fine with it.” So, what was the driving force into accepting that, and instead of hiding from it, you full on embraced it. You said, "this is me, this is my past, and this is who I am." What was that driving force that allowed you to accept that?

I think it was because it wasn't anything that I could change. It wasn't anything, if I could change, I'd be willing to change, because it's so hard-wired into who I am. It's lent itself well to my growth, and my voice. So, as I started writing and as I started sharing some of the experience I've had people come up to me and say, “I totally feel where you're coming from” [or] “My daughter experienced that same thing,” or “I experienced that same thing when I was growing up,” or “Your words touched me,” or “I noticed that you have such and such scar, or whatever. I have the same scar too.” Like, it started making me feel more empowered that, we're all more flawed than we are perfect. We're like these perfectly imperfect beings, and this unrealistic goal of perfection is what's causing so much turmoil, pain, [and people] being conflicted in who they are, and I'm tired of it. I'm so tired of it. I want authenticity, and I think people want it too.

This authenticity is something that brings such a close connection to the fans. Knowing some die-hard Rhymesayers fans I have heard “Music has saved my life” a time or two, and while I don't buy into the notion that the words of artists are what saved me, I do believe that they remind all of us of the strength that we have inside of us. This interview only strengthened that belief as we talked about the cycle of giving and take that keeps artistry alive in artists like Sa Roc. In an industry that isn't forgiving and often times forgets even the best of artists, the love of even a single fan can keep the fire burning. Speaking of fans, this seems the ideal time to break into our fan question.

And I'm pleased with ['Forever' and its mainstream success] and now people are going back through my catalog, and discovering what else that I've had to offer. Just getting that feedback and understanding that when you're on stage, or when you're creating, that the people who are consuming what you're putting out there are just as integral to the process, and the cycle, as what you're giving.

Right, and that's [an important perspective]. Normally, this section I usually save for the end to ask the fan question, but it seems like this is as good a time to do it, because of who the fan was, and what she asked. This is a question from a fan named Molly. She asks, as a young woman with self-confidence issues due to scars, stretch marks, and appearance. She asks for any advice on how to love yourself?

Well, I think it's a matter of understanding where that kind of mentality comes from. A lot of times when you get extremism, and things like that, it's coming from a place of personal hurt, pain and the experience of being marginalized. While angry generalizations are certainly not fun for the subjects of them, most times they are not personal and are simply critiques of the oppressive system as a whole. Women are finding and articulating our voices in the fight for equality and sometimes that won’t look or sound pretty. And that’s ok. We shouldn’t have to apologize for that. As we move forward and gain more equal footing, feel heard, and balance the power dynamic, I foresee that frustration and anger transforming into determination, self-empowerment, and constructive activism. I am a firm believer in the power of thoughts and words and approaching things holistically. Though there’s gender disparity, violence against women, wage gaps, and multitudes of other oppressive systems that are in place all over the world, I think that it’s important for members of marginalized groups to find and hold onto the immense power within ourselves. While that’s by far much easier said than done, history has shown that some of the most powerful shifts in tide have happened when movements of people with arguably the least hope, the least resources have understood their own power. We have to be careful when identifying an enemy or oppressive force that during the process of dismantling it, we aren’t totally consumed by the hatred we may feel towards it. We run the risk of sacrificing our self-healing, clouding our judgment, and impeding constructive work towards ending these kinds of injustices. We must begin to look within, from a place of self-love, empowerment, and positivity, to create a clear vision and to foster the ability to employ productive strategies. When our lenses are continuously informed by something we hate, we can potentially lose focus on building what we love. That’s why I’m loving the self-care movement that’s happening right now. It’s so essential to stay balanced when there’s difficult work to do.

Right, and they can tell too based on your emotional response to it. People aren't going to look at that and shame you for it. If these people care about you, they're going to care about you.

Right and especially if you're unapologetic about how you present yourself to the world. It takes practice, for sure. That's not something that happens overnight, where you're just like bold enough to be like 'hey these are all my things that society tells me are not cool, but I'm going to bare them to the world to see.' But, there's also movements where people are being more body positive and being more mental health positive, and all of these things. I would say find those circles and find those pockets. Start to feel comfortable wearing those things and wearing them with pride, instead of shame.

This was something that I have learned over the last few years of my life after being diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder. Learning not only to just accept it, but to talk about it openly with others has increased my understanding of the disorder but also seeing the outpour of support has truly made me feel ok in my skin. The other part of this that stood out was the idea to just say “I love you” to yourself. A close friend of mine and myself began a daily tradition of telling each other one positive note to each day and what it instilled in us was the ability to constantly be waiting and looking for the positive instead of basking in the negative. And not basking in the negative is something that can prove to be the most uplifting aspect of a culture, movement or personal journey.

Yeah, so you'll start to naturally gravitate towards that. It won't be forced after a while.

But, one of the last things I want to get into, is coming from the angle of feminism. I know you're very much about empowering women. The way that you do it, is something that I really admire about you, because you don't come off as, trying to tear men down. I know you're married and the way you talk about [Sol Messiah] it's such an uplifting side to men too, but you want to empower women. It seems to be almost a true [or righteous] feminist movement. I want to get your insight too because how I've always looked at things is like, I see myself as pretty far left or a liberal, but when I see the really, really far left, it sometimes bugs me to the point where I go, you're kind of harming what we're trying to do, by what they're doing. What is your take on this side of feminism that kind of tears men down, and says you're not good because we are better?

Well I think it's a matter of kind of understanding where that kind of mentality comes from, and a lot of times when you get extremism, and things like that, it's coming from a place of personal hurt, and pain. So, when things are in balance, you're able to see things in a more realistic kind of way. While I'm aware of the gender disparity, I'm aware of the impression women have on dudes who, kind of patriarchs, or constructs that are in place all over the world. I think that empowerment ultimately starts with you. When you continuously look outside of yourself for an enemy, whether that enemy or that maybe oppressive force is actually a real thing, you stop doing the work on yourself, and the impact that you can have on the world, and uplifting you and the other people that you are trying to emancipate from the shackles of these kind of stress. So it's more about 'Let me look within. Let me look at what we need to do, to change these dynamics, and let me see what I can do to work with this person, to transform these dynamics,; because when you look through a lens of this other group, its unyielding and unchanging, and I just have to chop it down. Like, there's not much that can be done, that's not really constructive.

The power and the ability to change the world comes in many forms. We often times want rebellions to be done a certain way and I am guilty of not understanding certain forms of protests or wishing there was another way, all while never having felt the strong arm of oppression, this is something that I constantly test myself on understanding and was glad to have someone as intelligent as Sa Roc teach me further.

Now I don't think that women's voices should be ever silenced or muted when we are expressing anger, or expressing frustration about real life issues, and real-life nefarious things that have been done by men. We deserve the right to be emotional without being negatively characterized by it.

Yeah, and I 100% agree with you. That's what I was trying to get at. Is the idea that, sometimes this misguided, their misplaced anger, can hurt the real tragedies that are being done, because there are very clear and real threats, and oppression that is happening amongst women, and those are things, I think sometimes when they get off track, that you start to put your anger towards other things, you lose focus and that kind of loses traction.

Yeah. You can potentially impede progress when focused on anger. There is much to be angry about. Marginalized folks, in particular, are reminded of that on a daily basis. There’s so much wickedness in the world. However, leading with that, may not lead to the wisest choices. We’re human. We emote. Of course, we must feel, we must process, we must call awareness to injustices, and we must also focus on solutions.

The voice of the oppressed comes in many forms and I don't believe that any form of speaking out for human rights is to be silenced. I think what it comes back to with me is the sense that positivity breeds positivity, whether its self-love or trying to promote change. The nation saw a rapid rise Bernie Sanders who strayed from slinging mud and just spoke the truth. Being positive doesn't mean we don't talk about atrocities, wrongful doings and those being oppressed, it means that we speak the truth and learn from them, with the goal remaining on positive change.

But, I don't want to say this wrong, but that idea that you can change yourself, and yourself knowing you're living your best life, I think it's that first step towards fighting that, versus just trying to always fight that other thing, to build yourself up, and then know how to take that other thing down.

Right. There has to be a balance, because the minute that we're told to be silent about the things that are holding us back, or the things that are holding us down, that's when those things don't get held accountable. That's when those things those insidious kinds of practices that have been happening, can continue to persist when people don't talk about them, when people aren’t angry about it and when people are quietly allowing it. So, I'm not in any way saying that, women should stop identifying oppression and oppressors, but I think that when energy is ensconced in the negative side of something, without that positive work and progression forward, that can be problematic.

While we are often encapsulated in the beat, the vibe and the energy of a song, hip hop offers so much more. It is a culture of knowledge with some of the most influential progressors in the last 40 years since its conception. When we stop and listen to the message of the truth sayers that represent the 'conscious' rappers we can see that they are more teachers than entertainers and we should take a moment to truly appreciate the value of teaching you while letting your serotonin fire off.

I did have kind of little bit a goal coming into this interview because I see you as a musician, but I also see you as so much more than maybe some of the other entertainers you talk about in the field. So, I really wanted to focus a little more on, on kind of who you are, and what your message means, and how that's displayed into your music? So, if you want to get into your latest project.

We're working on a project, finishing up a project, called The Sharecropper's Daughter. It's more kinda personal intimate project talking about the historical legacy of my predecessors, my father in particular, and how his experience growing up as a sharecropper has directly impacted my growth and development. Growing up in D.C., and during the crack era, and stuff like that, and how that has kind of shaped me as an artist, and as a person and just how that kind of generational trauma and pain can create a cycle unless we address the issue. So, the album kind of deals with that, and how we kind of process that, and how we break that, that process. It's exciting. I'm excited about it. We have some really dope features on the album.

So, I guess the last thing is for you to shout out your social media here?

Oh yeah. Social media, @SaRoctheMC on Twitter, and Instagram. On Facebook, I'm at SA-ROC, S/A/-R/O/C. Then the website is www.sarocthemc.com, and we're currently touring. I'll be hitting up Europe at the end of August, and later on in the fall. So, stay tuned for that too.

I often times try to wrap up the interview in the last section here but this time I wanted to speak solely on the artist. Sa Roc had brought out my favorite part of learning, internal reflection. This ability to teach is what makes her music so powerful and what makes me eagerly await her upcoming project. The problems of the world, of tragedies both worldwide and personal, can be dangerous when left to others to determine the answers. Dig deep, look inside, and be the change you want. Learn from the past, build the future and never stop listening to the music that inspires your strength because that one note could be the sound of change.